Questions over Cirencester Market Place plans to be answered by Cirencester Town Council

6:00am Thursday 14th March 2013 in News By Ian Craig

Cirencester Market Place Cirencester Market Place

RESIDENTS confused over controversial plans that could see on overhaul of the centre of Cirencester are to have the chance to have their questions answered.

The Cirencester town centre regeneration project is expected to cost up to £1.5million.

The plans could see a total redesign of roads around the town centre including reducing traffic on the south side of the market place to a single carriageway to open up a new pedestrianised zone in front of the Parish Church.

Castle Street is also set to become one-way eastbound to encourage drivers to use the ring road rather than cutting through the town, which it is hoped will cut congestion in the centre.

However, the scheme has proved controversial, prompting a flood of letters into the Standard. A recent poll on the Standard website revealed 72 per cent of respondents were in favour of a referendum on the project.

At Tuesday’s meeting of Cirencester Town Council members agreed that residents had not been fully informed about the project and decided on a raft of measures to allow them to scrutinise the plans, including a week-long public exhibition in May.

"It’s a fine plan and one that will benefit the town immensely."

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Town councillor Geoffrey Adams

Many have expressed serious concerns about the project, with Gloucester Street resident Stephen Langton saying at the meeting he did not feel it was a good use of money.

"Council tax payers’ money should be used for essentials, not frills," he said.

However, Cllr Geoffrey Adams said he felt a revamp of the area was long overdue, describing the current market place as "a car park with a dual carriageway either side of it".

"It’s a fine plan and one that will benefit the town immensely," he said. "Cirencester, the so-called capital of the Cotswolds, deserves it."

Other measures approved at Tuesday's meeting include a dedicated website and Facebook page, letters written to every home in the town and a public question and answer session to be held in June.

The scheme has been on the cards for more than 40 years, with the latest plans unveiled at a public exhibition last September.

The project is being driven by the Cirencester Development Trust, which includes Cirencester Town Council, Cotswold District Council and Gloucestershire County Council, and it is hoped that work on the project could start in January 2014.

  • What do you think about the market plans? Leave your comments below.
  • To view a selection of articles on the plans and letters written to the Standard on the scheme see the related links tab to the right of this page.

Comments(26)

Union Man says...
8:33am Thu 14 Mar 13

No wonder the Council Tax is so high if CTC is having to write to every house in Cirencester to arm wrestle this unpopular move through.
Why is Geoffrey Adams quoted and not Andy Litchnovski or Joe Harris?
Have Geoffrey and Andy Tubb staged a coop de tat?
Man up do the right thing have a referendum.like Joe Harris requested.

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Alvin Sepert says...
9:43am Thu 14 Mar 13

The Jewel in the Crown

By Al Sepert.

The shining jewel in the Cotswolds crown
The beating heart of Ciren Town
The Market Place, sadly run down
Shabby, neglected, sad and wan.

But fear not for there is a dream
A Market renovation scheme
Where elegance will reign supreme
A new tomorrow sparkling clean

Sweep away Edwardian slap
Cast aside Victorian tat
Rid the place of bric a brac
Bring the classic beauty back

Imagine a sweep of paving stone
with Taxis Cars and Buses gone
Where elegant ladies shop at leisure
In mini skirts and boots of leather.

Harrods, Selfridge, Harvey Nicks
Upmarket stores such as this,
To tempt the affluent modern miss
Away from the metropolis.

Imagination is the key
It may not work financially
But see it through and we will see
A fine and fitting legacy.

A legacy for Ciren Town
That says, "We did not let you down,"
A beauteous place in memory
of Andy Tubb and Geoffery.

MMXII al.sepert2@yahoo.com

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Cotswold Lad says...
11:42am Thu 14 Mar 13

Cirencester citizens could learn a lot from the example of Salisbury where a similar revamp has been approved. They now face a 22 week rebuilding programme that will see local shops and businesses each facing £10,000 loss of trade while the local market traders face 22 weeks without anywhere to put out their stalls.
Not to mention 22 weeks of chaos for people trying to move around their own town centre. This planned revamp may be what is needed in Cirencester, but can we trust the Town Council to deliver it on time and within budget given their track record?

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esse quam viderie says...
12:48pm Thu 14 Mar 13

In contrast to CDC at least the town council is trying to find out what the people of Cirencester really want though I do wonder how much more consultation we can take/afford after forty years.
And on the subject of track records I understand that a referendum would cost the thick end of £10000 or twice what CTC is now spending.

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Olly Cromwell says...
1:27pm Thu 14 Mar 13

Take a trip to Bruges...our marketplace could and should be improved to look like a proper historic chartered town.

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Gary Selwyn says...
7:42pm Thu 14 Mar 13

I'm always interested in the letters page of the paper version of the Standard, and comments posted here. The paper version has names attached to it - the website has interesting - and frequent - contributions from concerned people who don't have to leave a real name. Call me old fashioned, but instead of talking to "union man", "cotswold lad", "olly cromwell", "council taxpayer" and others, I'd much prefer to debate issues with people who are confident enough in their views to give their real name. As have I.
I'm intrigued that in the paper copy individuals (presumably) give their real name, but on-line no such constraints apply. I wonder why this is? Perhaps some of the contributors mentioned above could shed some light on this?

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Dwain Rimmer says...
8:37pm Thu 14 Mar 13

I'm with Gary on this one, whilst it's good that people take the time to comment and provide their views it does seem that on this site in particular, it is generally the same 6 or so individuals who comment. Mostly complaining about the thrust of this or that article and bringing into their post links to certain individuals. As a newcomer to the town it is no wonder visitors do not want to visit the christmas market or town generally if the comments by the usual suspects are typical of the welcome that is accorded to visitors.

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Union Man says...
12:38am Fri 15 Mar 13

The trouble is Gary, when you step out from behind your nom de plume you say absolutely nothing, no hint as to whether you support the proposals or support the referendum.
Why don't people visit the town Dwain, is it because it is dreary and run down or because people keep talking it down?
State you opinion by all means gentlemen but don't try to take the moral high ground and then sit on the fence..

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spabbygirl says...
10:05am Fri 15 Mar 13

I don't want this regeneration. if the market place hasn't been updated for 40 yrs then so much the better. I value the town for its historic past and I love to see that history, not some architects idea of what it should look like.

Leave it alone and help the small businesses/market traders with the money. That really would revamp the town

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Geoff66 says...
1:14pm Fri 15 Mar 13

Sorry but it is time for Cirencester to take the bull by the horn and make some major and decisive changes.

Cirencester is no longer the "Jewel in the Crown of the Cotswold's" in fact we have become the laughing stock of the Cotswold's and we are now at risk of becoming the Cinderford of the Cotswold's.

Our town is dirty, untidy and unkempt.

Where our our flowers, hanging baskets and tree lined vistas?

Where are the signs promoting our once ancient and famous past.

Where are the shops we need to attract people to our town centre? do we really need yet more and more charity shops and coffee shops.

Where are the stores and boutiques that a town like Cirencester needs and deserves to attract shoppers and visitors who now visit our neighbours for that important and much needed "shopping experience"

The failure to invest in the town centre, for year after year, and to introduce much needed changes and developments, means that we have lost out to our neighbours, and as a result of this, why would anyone really want to visit Cirencester these days???

Change is needed now and we need to introduce new radical plans to bring about swift and much needed changes... because if we fail to do this now, then this will be the death nail for our once proud town.

It is time for change and something new and decisive to happen to this once proud town. Let us embrace change instead of worrying about what might happen. If we don't act now then then all is lost and we only have ourselves to blame.

Cirencester needs to change NOW!!

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Cotswold Lad says...
1:49pm Fri 15 Mar 13

To answer Gary and Dwain, I am a cotswold lad and can trace family connections in Cirencester back to the late 1800's so, if it is OK with you, I'll remain a Cotswold Lad and uphold the fine British tradition of free speech. To be honest, redevelopment may well be just what the town needs ... my questions are really based upon the idea that it is not the most well thought out design, it has already jumped by £300,000 and I doubt that anyone on the Town Council has the experience to manage it on time and within budget given their track record on the Christmas Market (for example). But, that is just my opinion, I may well be proved wrong.

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Iansky says...
2:05pm Fri 15 Mar 13

Geoff66 wrote:
Sorry but it is time for Cirencester to take the bull by the horn and make some major and decisive changes. Cirencester is no longer the "Jewel in the Crown of the Cotswold's" in fact we have become the laughing stock of the Cotswold's and we are now at risk of becoming the Cinderford of the Cotswold's. Our town is dirty, untidy and unkempt. Where our our flowers, hanging baskets and tree lined vistas? Where are the signs promoting our once ancient and famous past. Where are the shops we need to attract people to our town centre? do we really need yet more and more charity shops and coffee shops. Where are the stores and boutiques that a town like Cirencester needs and deserves to attract shoppers and visitors who now visit our neighbours for that important and much needed "shopping experience" The failure to invest in the town centre, for year after year, and to introduce much needed changes and developments, means that we have lost out to our neighbours, and as a result of this, why would anyone really want to visit Cirencester these days??? Change is needed now and we need to introduce new radical plans to bring about swift and much needed changes... because if we fail to do this now, then this will be the death nail for our once proud town. It is time for change and something new and decisive to happen to this once proud town. Let us embrace change instead of worrying about what might happen. If we don't act now then then all is lost and we only have ourselves to blame. Cirencester needs to change NOW!!
I agree with this post, the town has progressively become more dilapidated with uneven pavements, dirty streets, empty shops and a general lethargic attitude from those in power.

I have stated before and stand by the fact that one of the current factors for loss of footfall is the cost of parking in our town and the poor posting of signs directing people to car parks.

I have personally spoken to customers to my wifes business and other business owners who are frustrated at the number of customers who have to rush to car parks before the wardens pounce, that is after they have spent too much for too little time in the car park.

If we want to make Ciren a community Town with spirit and an attractive place to visit then I agree the market place and shopping streets need rejuvination, this however will mean nothing unless parking is easily found and sensibly priced to encourage visitors to spend a number of hours enjoying what we can have rather than being used as a resource to fill council coffers through overpricing.

I just wish that those decision makers would personally get out from behind their desks and off their high horses and spend a day walking the town, talking to business owners and listening to what they say - only then will they be able to make informed decisions that have a positive effect for the people of the town and visitors with money to spend.

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MR DOBBY says...
5:19pm Fri 15 Mar 13

THE REASON THE TOWN IS OLD AND SHABBY IS BECAUSE CDC AND CTC HAS LET IT GET LIKE IT SO THEY CAN HAVE THERE OWN WAY.
NO CHANGE FOR YEARS DOES THAT NOT SPEAK FOR ITS SELF.
IF THE TOWN COUNCIL ARE INVOLVED IN IT, IT WILL GO WRONG EVERY TIME.

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Good Karma says...
6:45pm Fri 15 Mar 13

Well said Geoff66 and Iansky. People need to wake up and stop being so utterly negative. We are fortunate to live in a lovely part of the country and we are also fortunate to at last have the opportunity to make some really positive changes that will bring so many benefits to the people who live here. I agree, embrace positive change!

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Dwain Rimmer says...
10:04pm Fri 15 Mar 13

unionman - i am with geoff, that's exactly whats needed and you know what it doesn't have to be a hugely co-ordinated thing or even a council led initiative. Each shop is a business in it's own right and if 3 or 4 got together to spend a coupl of hundred quid promoting themselves which attracts visitors then fantastic. As for sitting on the fence, when i go somewhere I look at the local papers website to see what's on or not. If I see a hundred articles saying parking is overpriced and town is rubbish I don't go there. If I want to go to somewhere then I go. I don't get there and look at the price to park and leave, I go to the town/village/area because I want to be there. If Cirencester is a great place to visit then the parking charges are irrelevant, to paraphrase "build and the people will come".

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Council Taxpayer says...
12:52pm Sat 16 Mar 13

Those who attack the right to anonymous comment on the Internet should look at the lessons of history, particularly attempts by the state to control the publication of "seditious" pamphlets following the introduction of the printing press in the 17th Century.
If, like the United States, we had a written constitution, it would undoubtedly contain something akin to the First Amendment which protects the right to free speech.
In 1960, in the case of Talley v. California, the US Supreme Court found in favour of civil rights activist Manuel Talley in a ruling which is still relied upon today in the "land of the free" to protect the right to anonymous free speech on the Internet.
Talley, who handed out anonymous leaflets calling for a boycott of racist businesses, was charged with breaching a local ordinance that provided: "No person shall distribute any hand-bill in any place under any circumstances, which does not have printed on the cover, or the face thereof, the name and address of the following: (a) the person who printed, wrote, compiled or manufactured the same … .”
This echoed a law brought in here by Henry VIII in 1538 requiring that all books had to be approved by the Privy Council - legislation that was later beefed up under the reigns of Queen Mary and Elizabeth I, allowing the Company of Stationers to "seek out and destroy all seditious publications."
The landmark ruling in the case of Talley still holds in the US to this day and, anyone who wants to get on the moral high ground to challenge the right to express genuinely held views anonymously without fear of retaliation by either the state or the local council needs to argue a better case than the views expressed above.
I leave you with the ruling of Justice Hugo Black of the US Supreme Court who said when he allowed Tally's appeal: “Anonymous pamphlets, leaflets, brochures, and even books have played an important role in the progress of mankind. Persecuted groups and sects from time to time throughout history have been able to criticise oppressive practices and laws either anonymously or not at all.”

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Shop Owner says...
2:35pm Sun 17 Mar 13

Congratulations to the Town
Council for deciding on another round of consultation during which all the facts behind the scheme will be put into the public domain. I would encourage everyone to view the plans and funding options and make their views known both positive and negative.
I am sure that the Town Council will base the final decision on what the majority of residents and businesses want for their Town.

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MR DOBBY says...
4:13pm Sun 17 Mar 13

HOPE THEY LISTEN TO NEGATIVE RESPONCE THIS TIME.
BUT WILL NOT HOLD BY BREATH THEY JUST WANT TO PUSH IT THOUGH ANY WAY THEY CAN.

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zer()cool says...
5:33pm Sun 17 Mar 13

The town is full of coffee shops, & provide nothing for the younger generation, this is why so many families & being pushed out...it's full of 'fuddy duddies' just look at what happened to the play park at the developing estate near kings meadow...most people are being pushed to Swindon & other towns where they accept the inevitable changes that should be embraced, to keep revenue coming to the town.

I lived in the town for 35 years & couldn't wait to get out...it breaks your spirit & grinds you down, it's a town for the rich, successful, privileged & in some cases celebrity...& if you are not any of those you'll wither, until you leave the damned place...something has to change to break the cycle

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Geoff66 says...
12:52pm Tue 19 Mar 13

I have just been down to the Market Place and looked at the lovely sight of a town centre car park, and to be frank I am not sure why we need to let cars park in our Market Place!

- Why do they really need to be there?
- What benefit do they spaces really provide? (Yes i know there are major car parking concerns in Cirencester, but do we really need cars to park in the Market Place)
- Why should ranks of taxis be able to park here? (there are other more convenient sites which could be utilised)
- Do we really benefit from having buses dropping people off here, it's not like Cirencester has a massive shopping centre and i am sure there are other more convenient sites which could be utilised?

My question is however WHY can't we close of the Market Place off completely and make this a pedestrian only area and introduce planting areas, seating, trees and hanging baskets and make this a town centre where people can really enjoy the sights and beauty of the Church and the surrounding shops??

Take a good look at our Market Place the next time you are down there, and ask yourself "Do you really like and enjoy the sight of our Market Place filled with parked cars, buses, vans and lorries?? Surely we could and should be doing a much better job with this town's assets!!

I agree with many of the comments on the subject of the redevelopment of the Market Place
- YES the Town Council and CDC should have done a much better job with its consultation about these plans, as what has been achieved has been pretty woeful
- why not use the Corn Hall rather than the Bingham Hall and where were the information and display boards around the Market Place explaining their plans? (I am sure there are still people in this town who really don't know what has been planned and what the arguments are for change)

- BUT perhaps more importantly why has it taken 40 years to get to this point?? that in itself is a travesty!!! 40 years of neglect and failing to improve our town centre to ensure that we remained a much wanted and needed shopping and tourist venue...... our elected councillors have truly let us and Cirencester down...shame on you!!

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Cotswold Lad says...
1:25pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Perhaps it would help if the proposed changes could be tested in a one week trial with all the traffic lights switched off, the road changes blocked off with barricades and bus stops moved. That way people would be able to see the potential changes for themselves and give real-time feedback. Paper plans are one thing, actual physical changes make it real. As someone once said "I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you."

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Good Karma says...
4:51pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Geoff66 spot on! There is something deeply wrong with the system if it takes this long to bring about beneficial change for the people of our town. We could learn a lot from some of our continental European neighbours - thriving historic market towns abound in France, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Switzerland...we need to act decisively, not let things slip further backwards through lack of drive and vision.

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Iansky says...
5:32pm Tue 19 Mar 13

I agree with the comments above and we do not need to look too far afield to see the benefits of pedestrian only areas.

Cheltenham, Gloucester, Bath and Bristol all have pedestrian only areas in the heart of the shopping areas and they encourage people to "amble, browse and enjoy" the atmosphere.

If the Market Place was pedestrianised withn trees and seats, it would encourage people to enjoy the town more and there are areas close by where taxis / buses can drop off without the need to enter the main market place.

I lived overseas for many years and the small towns that did have pedestrian only central areas thrived and had lots of visitors.

Lets capitalise on the beauty of the market place and the character of the town by pedestrianising the market place, cleaning the streets, relaying the pavements in the centre that are uneven and lethal and creating a town centre the council and all residents can take pride in and enjoy.

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Olly Cromwell says...
7:51pm Tue 19 Mar 13

Please just get on with it. We're all dead in the long term.

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SeriouslyofSwindon says...
1:22pm Fri 22 Mar 13

I know there seems to be a lot of bad feeling around this but I can't help thinking that people just don't like change!
I'm sure there'll be some hard times along the way - there always is when you're dealing with the public sector HOWEVER, what can be bad about ultimately making the centre of Cirencester more accessible:
1. Older people will be able to move about more easily with same level pavements, less roads.
2. Families can enjoy a long day out in town without the anxiety of being so near roads, and having to cross over many levels to get to where you want to go.
3. There would be a central place for the community to gather - like we used to for 'All Schools country dancing', bigger markets, events, music, kids to run around,art etc.
4. The face of the high street is changing and people are shopping more and more online (me included) so the town needs to think about what it's there for. It should be a place for people to get together, to meet up, to share their lives, have a coffee, have some food?
5. Europe has lots of squares like this and how often do you hear people saying that was the part of the town they liked the most? OFTEN.
6. A few measly car parking spaces down the centre of the market place and a market on a traffic island doesn't keep the town alive and accessible for everyone! But flat pavements, less traffic, more space, safer wide open spaces, and more spaces for people to meet, sit and be together, does!
Let's not sit here waiting for it to fail, but get behind it and help make it a success!
I love Ciren and want everyone else to to.
“It is not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.”(Darwin)

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Good Karma says...
7:52pm Fri 22 Mar 13

Absolutely right SeriouslyofSwindon. We need a civic space we can be proud of.

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